Interview with Tony Benn At this conference, on many of the votes, the union block vote seems to have been further away from the constituency delegates' vote than for some time. Did you detect this and what do you think it represents?
I don't know if that's so, but I'm in favour of all conference votes being recorded because I think that conference will never be really effective until at trade union conferences people can along and say 'why did the union vote for this, and why didn't we vote for that'. This year we are recording votes for NEC elections which will be highly significant.
I think there is a genuine desire for unity in the Party as a whole. I think that some of the trade unions possibly feel by voting for certain policies they may be contributing to unity, they desperately want to see the Thatcher government out. And if there is a shift from the past, then I think that is possibly the explanation.
The vote for Eric Heffer, just over six per cent of the electoral college, obviously reflected the fact that the left was split in the leadership election and was probably a disappointment to many people on the left. Do you not think that the left should have backed him in the leadership fight earlier and more vigorously in the way that it backed Michael Meacher for the deputy leadership!
Well I think probably, but not being in parliament I was not involved in any of the stages of nominating. But as far as I was concerned when he invited me to go and, speak for him on his plattorm . went.
The election did provide in Eric Heffer's candidature a genuine choice tor people and some constituencies took it — and I think that it's very important elechoos should around political choices and not just about individuals. So I think that it was an important candidature.
Whether his vote could have improved if other actions had been taken I can't really say, because wasn't directly involved in the planning of his campaign.
If you had a vote as an MP, you would have voted for Eric Heffer? Rather than Neil Kinnock? Certainly. I made that absolutely clear, 1 did vote for him. but I voted for him as a delegate for Kensington, but a vote I thought was correct. Did you think that it was surprising that Michael Meacher voted for Neil Kinnock?
Well I'm not going to comment on what other people did.
In the speech you made to conference you referred to the Labour Party programme as a 'minimum programme . hme document which has presented to the conference, paigning for a Fairer Britain seems like a minimum version of a minimum programme....
No I don't see it like that at all. The campaigning document says that we re-affirm the policies which we put forward to the electorate, so it actually confirms the manifesto.
But of course the position is wholly different. The manifesto is drawn from Labour's Programme for Britain 1982, and therefore what we've actually got now with the Manifesto replaced by a defeat, is that back to Labour's Programme 1982. The little campaign document we produced this time is only just because we thought it right to say something to the Partv at this year's conterence. But it doesn't in any way erode or shift the Labour Programme 1982 But don't you think that the way the document is written and the which it gives to policy is indicative that some people want to policy, for example in the way opposition to the EEC is replaced with a section entitled 'a socialist Europe'? come Well we've never doubted that. I've always been in favour of a socialist voice in Europe, my objection to the Treaty of Rome is that it silencies a socialist voice in Europe.
I think you're nit-picking, which is understandable given the position vol take. instead of looking at the real thing. What's happened this week is overwhelming re-affirmation of our basic position.
Now we haven't actually had a debate on the EEC because our first job now is to fight the European elecnons, in order to see lal lne Labou vote and the Labour campaign on the on unemployment about non-nuclear it's about the whole range of policy and that is our priority.
But the Treaty of Rome is a major obstacle to the united Europe I want, a united socialist governing states.
And nothing that's been said or done can alter that; but of course there are people who were always proCommon Market and in the aftermath of an election everyone should be able to speak their minds. Sure, but it's not just on the Common Market but on other things. There are aspects of poicy about yesterday, policy on jobs, which should be in the forefront of the programme -pear.... been CamTony Benn But there was a resolution which was passed this week which re-affirms that...
...and again on unilateral disarmament, although this conference rewe're affirmed it, the change VULC and is ucicue sualegy, Europe of selfmost minimum version of it.
which you talked defence strategy, for example party the 35-hour week, strategy'. the negotiations.
document has the which sualegy A FAIRER, BETTER BRITAIN lege, the that IDDI Ine Well you have confidence that it will be put right. But don't you recognise that there is a fear in some sections of the party that these expulsions are not aberration, to something more extensive? There will be those who favour it. I don't think it will happen.
What's your general view of the attitude that socialists inside the party, should take to the leadership? It's a leadership elected by a system we campaigned very hard to create. The Rank and File Mobilising Committee fought very hard to get an electoral college. We got the electoral col we used it, we got a leadership and I think the party should accept that in the same way as it accepts the vote of the conference on political matters.
This year's conference has built confidence, I think we've confirmed policies, we've used the machinery which is now beyond argument — nobody's ever going to sug gest now that we change the electoral college - and I think that all the work , WCIL in which was very necessary over the last four years, ha produced results which are in confor mity with the wishes of the Labour Party as reflected at the conference.
If we hadn't done all these things we might very well be faced with David Owen just about to be elected to the leadership of the Labour Party defectors, world have shifted to wards the SP Indeed the SDP as such might not have appeared.
So I think it's a very considerable